If we had retroactive safety labels they’d look like this

"DCCARGEEK" (dccargeek) 09/24/2013 at 14:25 • Filed to: None

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Earlier this month EPA announced a tool that allowed users to print fuel economy labels for their used vehicles. This is perfect for the person looking to park their near-mint Cobalt in the Wal-Mart parking lot and want to showcase the car’s fuel economy.

What if a similar approach was applied to vehicle safety, but instead of displaying the car's safety rating from the year in which it was built the label would reflect a new safety measure based on current technologies (i.e. how safe is a ten year old vehicle vs. a five year old vehicle vs. a brand new vehicle)?

In a way, that’s sort of what NHTSA hinted at in a recent report titled, “How Vehicle Age and Model Year Relate to Driver Injury Severity in Fatal Crashes.” In this report the agency looked at “the injury outcome of drivers of passenger vehicles from MY 1985 to 2012” involved in accidents from 2005-2011.

The agency’s conclusion; older cars are less safe (duh).

The purpose of the report was to highlight achievements made in vehicle safety technology and their impact on reducing overall roadway fatalities. While the conclusion isn’t shocking, it did lead me to dream up this notion: What if we could apply a retroactive quasi-safety rating to a used vehicle in the form of a label?

So, I made a label.

Now before you go all anti-government on me, let me state this: there is NO evidence to indicate the government (or anyone else) is even remotely considering this as an option.

And for all the Craigslist carnivores who feed off pre-1995 vehicles you should...

A) Read the report. It is interesting.
B) Always wear your seat belt.
C) Comment on the stupidity that is the label I invented.

NHTSA REPORT: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Kugelblitz > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 15:09

4

This begs the thread, Which cars are certain death to operate? I mean aside from certain Lotus cars.

Casper > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 15:10

1

Almost all of my favorite cars would be very close to the 1 end of the spectrum...

DCCARGEEK > Kugelblitz 09/24/2013 at 15:11

2

Good question! Sounds like a QOTD thread - or maybe something we could submit to NHTSA/IIHS.

Which vehicle model had has the record for the highest fatality rate per vehicle sold?

DCCARGEEK > Casper 09/24/2013 at 15:12

4

Are you married? If not, we should discuss your life insurance policy options. I would happily become your beneficiary.

Casper > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 15:14

1

Too late, married. That's why it's "almost" and not just "all".

Telumektar > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 15:16

0

I think it would be great, but I don't know how doable it could be.

How would you calculate a car's rating without crashing another same-model car?

I think that, as tests evolve and ratings get updated for the new rules old cars' ratings must be lower. For example, what would a Renault Laguna's rating be today, considering its the first car ever to have been given a 5-star rating from the Euro NCAP? That was in 2001. I would guess it's a 2.5-star car nowadays, but I cannot be sure.

Also, the label should interact with a smartphone. Having a database with hundreds of models and their changing ratings would be way more efficient than having to print new stickers every year and having to physically check over every car you want to know its rating.

I have already spoken to my girlfriend about this, she loves old, sixties Mustangs and I love old Alfas, Lancias and pretty much every car with a rich story and nice looks and/or performance, old designs get me. So, we know if we ever get one of those cars they would be mostly for fun and never for long family-trips, much less if it involves freeway-traffic and (mainly) other drivers.

Tekamul > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 15:16

10

Wooohoooo! I'm #1!

[rolls into traffic]

[gets crushed by a portly kid on a bike]

DCCARGEEK > Casper 09/24/2013 at 15:16

0

Same here. Married with kids. A 'safe' vehicle is a requirement.

Me: Look here wife. This review says the Jeep SRT is the safest new vehicle in 2014.
Her: Really? Wow. OK. You're the car person. We'll get that one.
Me: :)

DCCARGEEK > Telumektar 09/24/2013 at 15:18

0

Agree on this being damn near impossible.
As for the lack of smartphone integration, that was more of a joke as most of these cars we like to hoon are pre in-dash navi.

DCCARGEEK > Tekamul 09/24/2013 at 15:19

7

[Portly kid stops to pick up dropped pizza. Keeps going.]

Telumektar > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 15:23

0

Aaaaahm, ok :D

But a QR code-thing that could link to this site I made up would be great.

Most cars we Jalops like would be en the 2-to-0 range.

Party-vi > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 15:23

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Neat report, but kind of useless without driver age data, as only people who can afford new cars are buying them and I'm assuming those people are more experienced drivers not yet in the grip of dementia or oldness, and more inexperienced drivers are using older cars. Actually I'd rather see a study of a drivers age distribution for a given MY vehicle. Do old people really drive old cars or are younger people buying them all up?

DCCARGEEK > Party-vi 09/24/2013 at 15:25

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Hmm. I'll bet I could coax vehicle model year information along with birthdate out of a DMV somewhere. Question is which DMV...

Let me mull this over for a bit. As long as the name isn't associated with the age pulling this data shouldn't violate any PII laws.

DCCARGEEK > Party-vi 09/24/2013 at 15:25

1

Hmm. I'll bet I could coax vehicle model year information along with birthdate out of a DMV somewhere. Question is which DMV...

Let me mull this over for a bit. As long as the name isn't associated with the age pulling this data shouldn't violate any PII laws.

It's a "Porch-uh" > Kugelblitz 09/24/2013 at 15:30

2

Porsche 993 GT2 would be a 1 (or a 0).

Casper > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 15:36

0

Compared to my vehicles a Jeep SRT is is a tank. My current DDs are a Ninja 1000 and a 73 240Z with an SR20DET swap. The wife has the safest car at the moment with her BRZ.

Kugelblitz > It's a "Porch-uh" 09/24/2013 at 15:37

0

why do I think something popular with tuners should go here? The idiot F&F race fans.

DCCARGEEK > Casper 09/24/2013 at 15:54

0

10mpg. I love gas stations.

davidj210 > Kugelblitz 09/24/2013 at 16:57

1

Viper? I understand they're quite the handful.

tsmit > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 16:58

0

gotta love my beater civic :D

2 Wheels awesome! > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 16:59

3

Wonder where my Corvair ranks now... vs what it ranked in the mid 60s.

Blondude > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 17:00

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*sigh* Have we really gotten to this point?

HammerheadFistpunch > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 17:13

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I love it. As a side note, you should read the safety info for my car...its pretty hilarious.

basically - if you get in a crash, don't worry, you weight 2.5 tons. Big link

BionicPhil > 2 Wheels awesome! 09/24/2013 at 17:14

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Neck and neck with a swing-axle VW Beetle, I'd guess! Hold on, I'll text Nader.

monkeyracing > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 17:16

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When I saw the headline, I thought I'd see a label that stated "You shouldn't have done that."

I hoon, therefore I am > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 17:21

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This tells me that I shouldn't wear a seat belt, as the fatality rate is fairly inelastic vs. model year.

/illusory correlation

vc-10 > HammerheadFistpunch 09/24/2013 at 17:27

1

My mum crashed a 1997 'J90' Land Cruiser Colorado (aka Prado) into the back of a W124 Merc estate. The Merc lost. MAJORLY. The Land Cruiser was driven onto the tow truck... the Merc had no rear axle. Tough car. It was repairable too, but was written off because it wasn't worth much.

HammerheadFistpunch > vc-10 09/24/2013 at 17:28

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tough? no doubt. safe? maybe.

GreenN_Gold > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 17:29

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Death is a nice touch in the upper corner. Don't fear the reaper!

GRIVLET - Proud of Cobalt > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 17:30

1

DID SOMEONE SAY COBALT??

RAHEJDYUEJTURBOSJDJDHSHNURBURGRING.

GBond > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 17:32

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Cable operated drum brakes!

GBond > GBond 09/24/2013 at 17:35

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No seatbelts! No brake booster!

deekster_caddy > Kugelblitz 09/24/2013 at 17:35

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I can almost guarantee if I got hit by anything more than a fender bender in my '54 MG I'd die. Drive defensively!

vc-10 > HammerheadFistpunch 09/24/2013 at 17:43

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Well, she walked away with no more than airbag rash, so it did its job.

Houston Lang > GRIVLET - Proud of Cobalt 09/24/2013 at 17:44

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Nurburaging what?

Poundingsand > Kugelblitz 09/24/2013 at 17:44

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MG Midget. I always said "if I crash mine you may as well bury me in it".

Poundingsand > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 17:45

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I'm guessing the SAFEST vehicle is probably the Pontiac Aztek.

Most people wouldn't be caught dead in one.

No need to shove, I'm leaving...

Detroit Velvet Smooth > vc-10 09/24/2013 at 17:55

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Cars are meant to crumple. You don't want the energy of the crash to be disturbed through your spine after all. Its why those Le mans/F1 drivers can walk away from those ugly looking 200+ MPH crashes without a scratch.

Gremlin1975 > BionicPhil 09/24/2013 at 18:00

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Depends what year, only first generation are swing axle.

DCCARGEEK > Blondude 09/24/2013 at 18:02

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:)

Naija > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 18:12

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I actually like the logic behind this

KazVH > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 18:15

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Considering my favorite mode of transportation, I might be able to get a 2 some time in my life, and that's only if I get a Goldwing.

DCCARGEEK > Naija 09/24/2013 at 18:27

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Thank you. That makes 2 of us. Only 29 million more to go!

Nick McKay > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 18:38

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I agree that Older Cars are not as safe as newer cars, but if the Car Companies continue to believe that they should Cocoon us in steel, more accidents are going to happen, "IF YOU CAN'T SEE OUT OF THE CAR, YOUR GOING TO HAVE AN ACCIDENT" give me more window and a better field of view, I want to be able to drive with one arm out the window and not feel like a kindergarten student who is witnessing the Urinal for the first time.

-Nick Out!

Wufnu > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 18:48

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I went to the URL and was disappointed, although not surprised, to see that it wasn't a real website :(

Renegade > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 18:54

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We feed off pre-1996 vehicles, excluding a few (95' Hombre, 94'+ Thunderbird, etc.).

Renegade > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 18:56

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Years later...

"My pizza! Oh, SHI-"

[crashes car, breaks arm]

- Nate Burleson

Spasoje > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 19:01

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The 1995 vehicle I'd want already had only a one/two-star rating when it was new. I don't think I want to click on the link... :/

TulsaMtnBiker (OkieRising) > HammerheadFistpunch 09/24/2013 at 19:07

0

That sir is why I went with the UZJ100. Safer and a bit more reliable. "Moderately" better fuel economy.

HammerheadFistpunch > TulsaMtnBiker (OkieRising) 09/24/2013 at 19:34

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Not sure about reliability....you trade one thing for another, but yes to safety and fuel.

NathanLoiselle > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 20:03

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I wonder what Stephen King's Christine would rate with your system?

DCCARGEEK > NathanLoiselle 09/24/2013 at 20:26

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Christine was an autonomous car meaning it would kill you without harming itself therefore it gets an 11.

Masterofgoingfaster > Kugelblitz 09/24/2013 at 21:00

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There can only be one

Kugelblitz > Poundingsand 09/24/2013 at 21:00

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1970 MG, 1978 on the way to HS graduation, the rear end clip failed on a downhill sweeper which aimed the car into a big ditch, hitting a piece of concrete which flipped us end over end. Top was up because it was raining. I was the passenger and my head bent the center windscreen strut when I pinballed off of it. Last time I did not wear a seat belt. Car was a mess, too but we both were ok.

GhostZ > Kugelblitz 09/24/2013 at 21:19

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Early Corvair, 2CV in modern traffic, and anything with 20-30% more power with no improvement to the suspension, brakes, or transmission.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 22:04

2

I knew a guy that married and traded his Elise for a E55 AMG "because a sedan is safer". Yeah his wife didn't know a lot about cars.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Party-vi 09/24/2013 at 22:09

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That would be a very interesting statistic if you broke it down by vehicle model year and compared the crash rating. Young and old do tend to drive some of the crappiest vehicles and have the highest fatality rates.

Maxaxle > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 22:26

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My mom's '99 Camry is probably here (and by extension, since it's not our nicest car, it's my DD).

MBG141 > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 23:07

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My '90 Civic would probably rank a 1 or a 2...

bmrdave > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 23:20

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[You are eaten by a grue.]

DavidHH > DCCARGEEK 09/24/2013 at 23:51

1

Juan,
A) There is a sociological factor that the DOT unfortunately appears to fail to understand the reason behind their statistics. Which is the effects sociopathic drivers, with newer and often larger cars. The easiest way to explain this problem is by example:
I was one of four people sent to the hospital by a drunk driver who had caused three previous accidents and one since, all inflicting serious injury on others. Had he been driving a 1971 VW camper van like the one we were in, he would have suffered serious injuries, but instead he was in a Mercedes 500 series, which is a tank.
His wealth allowed him to repeatedly caused harm to others, the third accident he caused was the worse, leaving a young woman with a head injury so severe that the nursing home referred to her as a screamer (i.e. had to be kept restrained and tranquilized, and despite that spent her time screaming). In the forth accident, I received the worse injuries, breaking four vertebra in my back, fracturing my skull and being brought to the hospital in a coma, and was told if I hadn't been asleep when the accident occurred, I would have died.
He had consumed 2 liters of wine in the hour preceding the accident, ran a stop sign at over 40 mph broadsiding my van. My VW which was traveling at 50 mph flipped end over end after the passenger side suspension was crushed and sliding door removed. He then attempted to flee the scene, but ran out of transmission fluid a half a mile away, but was not charged with anything, which the California Highway Patrol refereed to as a "failure in judgement" (i.e. he paid the officer a very large cash bribe, which he also did in accident #3).
B) Accident severity is generally measured in the number of doors of the car that still work, which in the case of my VW was none. It's interesting that you mentioned "always wear your seat belt", since the only person wearing a seat belt was a friend who was driving my VW. Moments before the accident, his girlfriend took here seat belt off, got out of the front passenger seat to get something from the middle of the van. Otherwise she would have been crushed with the passenger seat by the roof of the van.
C) Perhaps your sticker needs the following: Driving this car may make you a target for homicidal drunk, rich sociopathic drivers, with newer and often larger cars, having lots of cash to buy their way out of vehicular assault.
David

thewisedriver01 > MBG141 09/25/2013 at 01:27

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im pretty sure my e30 nets me almost certain death

mallamE30 > Kugelblitz 09/25/2013 at 01:41

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...Or any car from the TVR stable

Kevin Barrett > Tekamul 09/25/2013 at 05:10

2

I don't remember the last time I saw a portly kid on a bike, but it's a risk I'll take.

Jesus Christ, that baby deer is headed right for us!

John Coctostan > mallamE30 09/25/2013 at 05:21

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I have driven one TVR once and loved it. I don't think I would ever want to get in an accident with one but my very German friend's dad was more than happy to give up the keys. It is like an '85 RX-7 on steroids and if you are use to oversteer, as I was with my RX-7, it was pointable with your right foot. A LOT of car in a flimsy kinda package. I preferred his Escort Cosworth much more, but in a different way. His son, my exchange student friend, with the 911 toasted me but their collective stable was awesome!

John Coctostan > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 05:26

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I read somewhere that the FIAT 500 and it's kin met some European crash safety rating we have yet to embrace here in the states. I have looked this up and found very little that even alludes to the article I read. Help?

charlesmagyrus > Kugelblitz 09/25/2013 at 07:18

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Peel P50 = death trap.

inefficient > 2 Wheels awesome! 09/25/2013 at 07:21

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Depends; collapsing steering column and swaybar?

BarbarousJaffa > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 07:29

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#DeathTrap :P

charlesmagyrus > DavidHH 09/25/2013 at 07:37

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This is one of the reasons why I think the phrase "driving is not a right but rather a privilege" makes so much sense.
Not only the motor vehicle departments should test the driver candidates as for their driving skills, they also should check their background. People prone for drinking, drug abusing, violent behavior and any sort of mental disability, even a slight one, should disqualify as a candidate to stand behind the wheel.
The problem nowadays with most countries in general (IMO) is they no longer take care of their mentally unstable and sick individuals. Regardless of the instruments they carry (be it a car or a gun), they represent a severe risk for anyone around them. Guns, on the other hand, are an even easier target than cars because they do represent violence by themselves, but an automobile, a way of transportation, may represent as much harm potential as a loaded gun.
Well, guess it's cheaper to demonize cars and guns rather than truly take a scope into the real cause of the whole problem. Not a single sane person runs a massacre, be it with a car or a gun as their instrumental tool. Sick people do.
The guy you described should be taken away from the wheel forever, and maybe put in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.
Not only he screwed up with the life of many of his direct victims, he also victimized severely other people who will eventually face fiercer traffic regulations due to irresponsible bastards like him. The society as a whole suffers.
Glad you are ok and hope you never have the unpleasant experience of meeting this SOB on the road again.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 08:27

1

Is this a shit-pile graphic symbol?

j4066 > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 08:36

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I am printing that out, laminating it, and putting it in the window of my Cobalt!

It's pure genius, and we need legislature to mandate these immediately.

But who am I kidding. I know that "big Death" has plenty of lobbyists in D.C.

DCCARGEEK > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 09/25/2013 at 08:49

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It's a random squiggle for a government agency and was not suppose to look like poop.

DCCARGEEK > John Coctostan 09/25/2013 at 09:00

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I'm not real familiar with the crash ratings in Europe. I do know they do frontal barrier different then we do here in the US. Also, there are various crash testing that is conducting here by agencies like IIHS that aren't part of the government, but still 'test' cars (for insurance companies).

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Houston Lang 09/25/2013 at 09:31

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I thought he was trying to say Koenigsegg...

sammyjay > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 09:36

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Our Beater Fleet's (estimated) ratings:

2004 Cavalier Sedan: 5? 6? It's got some airbags and my friend rolled her Sunfire a few times and walked out of it.

1999 Oldsmobile Silhouette w/heavy rust & "repaired" blown head gasket: 1.2, tops. There's a reason we only drive this to the town dump and back: trash isn't going in the GTI. Go look at a GM U-body crash test video and then realize that's how well it did brand new.

1998 Jeep Cherokee: 3 in the driver's seat, -4 in the passenger's seat. The passenger seat is only attached at 2/4 mounting points to the floor, and I'm 50% sure the airbag in the steering wheel doesn't work. No unibody rust anywhere though.

Schnell! > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 09:40

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Any Ferrari gets a 1, but only for death by fire.

2 Wheels awesome! > inefficient 09/25/2013 at 09:45

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1965, so yes with full independent suspension

DCCARGEEK > sammyjay 09/25/2013 at 09:52

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Does the Jeep have a passenger airbag? If not, -6.

Also, hauling trash in a GTI sounds like a very bad idea.

DCCARGEEK > Schnell! 09/25/2013 at 09:52

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Unfair! But true..

sammyjay > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 10:36

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It says AIRBAG on the dash and I did have to disconnect a giant yellow wire when I was servicing the heater core...whether or not I reconnected it is anyone's guess now. I think I did.

The GTI is on the way out next year. Papa wants a C7...yeah right.

DCCARGEEK > sammyjay 09/25/2013 at 10:52

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I too hope to have a C7 post-winter. I'm in a '14 Jeep SRT right now. It's fun, but not Corvette-fun.

Troll is English for Troll > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 11:18

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I'd imagine my 1998 Contour ranking in at the bottom of the list, somewhere under the 5.

The dashboard vibrates and the rear seats feel like they're about to come off. The "check engine" light likes to come on for every reason it can (and most if not all issues are completely harmless to the car). Every couple of weeks, I am presented with a major issue regarding this car. One day it's the front strut that snaps, the next, I need to replace the battery connectors. Next, the battery stops working. Now, that's not the issue, the fact that parts need to keep getting replaced. The issue is buying the parts online, waiting for them to ship in, and that uncertainty that when you get them, they're either not the parts you ordered or they don't work (at least on the car). If you went to the local Autozone or Pepboys or Carquest or O'Reilly, that wouldn't be an issue. It's only a quick walk/drive to the store and if it doesn't work, replace them and get a different brand. I've learned that parts don't always work whenever you're replacing them, for example, just recently, my dad's Ford Taurus' spark plug connector had to be shipped back and we ended up losing $20 just to get a $5 refund (basically). In general, the car feels like falling apart and I had the car BEFORE it hit the 90,000 mile mark, back in 2012.

I guess a year later, you really begin to see whether or not you made a good buy. This car, by no means, is a good car. The more I drive it, the more I regret buying it. It's just a shame that with this many problems, I'd rather keep it because selling it may be one major headache.

DeeVeeOus > Party-vi 09/25/2013 at 11:22

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Read the report. It does factor age. It uses 25-34 as a baseline for the data. Later on in the study it shows data for correlating other age groups.

Party-vi > DeeVeeOus 09/25/2013 at 11:39

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Eh. Too much reading. I need everything digested and spat out onto a graph for me.

J_E_C > Blondude 09/25/2013 at 12:58

1

The shark jump (or nuked fridge, if you will) moment for me was reading a review of a BMW 5-series that devoted more space to talking about Twitter and Facebook integration than it did about the handling or the engine. That, in my mind, will the be the moment humanity started on its downward spiral to apocalypse.

uziy16 > DCCARGEEK 09/25/2013 at 13:32

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I swear I read that as...

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

but not sure why we would want some...

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 09/25/2013 at 13:47

0

I'll stick with my interpretation.

Fuzzmanmatt > Kugelblitz 09/25/2013 at 14:08

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2-door 2 wheel drive Chevy Blazer, 1996+. Not if, but when, you roll over, you will die.

DavidHH > charlesmagyrus 09/25/2013 at 15:07

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Charles,
Yes we do need tougher driving tests, as they are currently a joke. The problem is the people who do not care about others, and show it with dangerous, aggressive and often drunk driving.
Unfortunately what happened to us is not unique, a friends sister was one of four people killed in a head on with a drunk driver who had caused harm before. They were in a small car, and he was driving a full-sized tank.
My friend who was driving my VW when we got hit, drove a wrecker for a company that had the state police contract for the freeway, had to clean up after a nasty head on collision. The accident was caused by a drunk driving who was using his cell phone. He had a modern car, and the two people he killed instantly were in an old AMC. His wealthy father was actually making jokes about the damage to the car two people died in.
Recently I experienced a road rage, by a driver in a Mercedes tank. He was accelerating at the car in front of him, and slamming on the brakes at the last minute, on the freeway in very heavy traffic. When he was behind me, he came within a few feet of my wife's car a dozen times, before I could change lanes. Then he proceeded to do this again to the next car in front of him, and so on.
We have a problem, with dangerous, wealthy drivers in this country, who can afford to fight most violations and drive modern often heavier cars, that inflict more damage on their victims in older and often smaller cars. Many of them drink and drive, have multiple violations, drive in an aggressive manor, and hurt others in multiple collisions. They pay high risk insurance, and yet often have minimal liability coverage, as they know how to prevent their victims from collecting.
The same aggressive behavior that made them rich, is why they always blame their victims for driving a "dangerous car". There is a certain billionaire who is currently trying to buy his way out of hell, by giving some of his money way, and who has been banned from driving for life for good reason. The "non-disclosure agreement" that comes with any lawsuit settlement is to blame, and anyone who is severely injured has no choice but to settle because of the medical costs.
And no I would not say that I'm alright, as I have spent the last few days laid up, as severe chronic pain is something I live with. But I was lucky, Jimmy Anderson was not.
http://gawker.com/this-is-what-i…
David

Braniff747SP > HammerheadFistpunch 09/25/2013 at 21:50

0

Yeah, the Range Rover that I drive is basically the same.